Dr. William Davis on Grains and Heart Disease (Continued)

By: | Comments: 1 | April 2nd, 2019

Join Dr. Hotze and his special guest, Dr. William Davis, author of Wheat Belly and Undoctored, as they continue their discussion on how wheat and whole grains cause a long list of symptoms and diseases as we age. They also guide us in how to eliminate these from our diet and gain control of our health, naturally!

Podcast Transcription:

Stacey Bandfield: Welcome to Dr. Hotze’s Wellness Revolution. I’m Stacey Bandfield here with Dr. Steven Hotze, founder of the Hotze Health & Wellness Center. We have back on the show today Dr. Dr. William Davis, who’s the author of several books, including Wheat Belly and Undoctored. So excited to have him back on the program today, Dr. Hotze.

Dr. Hotze: Thank you so much, Stacey. And thank each one of you for joining us today. I believe that you and every individual needs to have a physician and a staff of professionals who have the wherewithal and the know-how to coach you onto a path of health and wellness, naturally, without using pharmaceutical drugs. The sounds heretical to the pharmaceutical industry and conventional medicine, but that’s what I believe. Without pharmaceutical drugs, we can help you get on a path of health and wellness, naturally, so that you have energy, so that you have vitality, and you’re enthusiastic for life. And you’re in a good and normal body weight, and you feel like a million bucks. I don’t care if you’re 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, there’s no reason why you shouldn’t be brimming with energy and be full of life.

Dr. Hotze: Let me just remind you – the Bible story. Moses got his calling for his ministry at age 80. He lived 40 years, and he wandered around with the Jewish people, who were hardheaded, in the desert for 40 years. When he died at 120 years on Mount Nebo, it says in the Bible, this is Deuteronomy 34:7, it says that Moses died, and when he died, he had sparkle in his eyes and he was still full of vim and vigor, so that’s what I would like each one of you, that’s our goal for each one of you, is to have sparkle in your eyes and full of vim and vigor while you’re alive.

Dr. Hotze: We have on our program today a returning guest, Dr. William Davis, who’s a cardiologist in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That’s in the Northern lands. We’re down here in Houston. He’s got to be 2,000 or 3,000 miles north of here. Glad to have him. He’s a cardiologist, been an invasive cardiologist. But he had an ah-ha moment in medicine back in the mid 2000s, 2003, 2004, and 2005, when his mother had a heart attack. He was doing angioplasties back then, eight or ten a day. And all of a sudden, his mother had a heart attack after she had an angioplasty several months before, and she just had an acute coronary and died. And that caused Dr. Davis to begin to question what could be done to prevent heart disease. And so Dr. Davis, you discovered…What did you discover at that time?

Dr. William Davis: Well, as you did, we started scanning people with heart scans and uncovering literally tons of hidden heart disease in everyday people. And the conventional answers, of course, do nothing to stop the progression of atherosclerotic plaque. These heart scan scores just keep on going up and up and up.

Dr. Hotze: And we’re talking about statin drugs that don’t stop coronary artery disease.

Heart Dangers of a Low-Fat Diet

Dr. William Davis: Right. Statin drugs don’t do it. Aspirin doesn’t do it. A low-fat diet is absurd. It does not do it. In fact, low-fat diets make it worse. If you watch metabolic markets and lipoprotein testing, that is not cholesterol testing, but lipoprotein testing, the real test, you watch small LDL particles explode on a low-fat diet. You watch HDL drop. You watch HDL become smaller and less effective in protecting you. You watch triglycerides go way up. You watch VLEL particles that lead to heart disease go way up. You watch after-meal patterns, lipoproteins, the particles that flood your bloodstream after a meal. You see that explode. In other words, a low-fat diet is the diet you follow to create heart disease.

Dr. Hotze: Right. And the opposite, the other side of the coin of the low-fat diet is what has been promoted by not only the cardiologists, but by the American Diabetic Society and by the federal government and by agribusiness, and that is eat a lot of grains, folks. Don’t eat any fat. Eat a lot of grain products, and you’ll be healthy. And of course, what that causes is an explosion of obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, coronary artery disease, dementia, Alzheimer’s disease, kidney disorders, degenerative arthritis and cancer. We see a dramatic rise in all of these because we’ve changed our eating patterns from what historically humans have eaten for tens of thousands of years. And so in your book you write about, in your book Wheat Belly, and again, you have a chapter on it in Undoctored. And it’s an excellent synopsis about why human beings should not be eating wheat products, or grain products, or any products derived from grass.

Now this sounds heretical. Who doesn’t love a good hot biscuit, or a good buttered roll with honey on it? I mean, I love sourdough bread. I could eat a loaf of that every night with butter. But I know it’s not healthy for me, so I don’t. But we’ve all grown up eating the rolls, the cookies, the cakes, the birthday cakes. Everybody, 70% of all our calories are coming from simple carbohydrates, mostly from wheat products and corn products in our diet. And so what we’re going to talk about today is going to be to some of you, upsetting, because you’re going to go, “I can’t do that.” But what Dr. Davis is going to talk about, and I fully agree with, is the danger, the severe danger to your health, of eating wheat products. That’s pizza, pasta, cookies, cakes, tortillas, anything made from wheat products, batter and all that, how dangerous that is for your health long-term. So doctor, tell us about wheat. What happened? What’s wrong with wheat? We’ve been eating it for 10,000 years. Haven’t we adjusted to it? What’s going on?

Dr. William Davis: We could take up three shows just on that topic. But boiling it down to the essentials, wheat is a grass of course, and so what we’ve been told is to consume the seeds of grasses. That’s what wheat is. That’s what corn is, rice, millet, sorghum, et cetera. And just as you can’t cut your lawn every summer and save the clippings to toss on top of a salad, no one does that, of course. But you’ve got to wonder. Why not? It’s green. It’s a plant like spinach or kale. But of course, if somebody did, and people have done this in times of desperation and war, you throw it up. You have diarrhea, abdominal cramps. And the grass comes out the other end full intact. In other words, humans lack the digestive enzymes to break down the proteins in grasses or any component of grasses. And that’s true of the seeds.And so for instance, there’s a protein called wheat germ agglutinin. It’s called agglutinin because when it contacts blood, it causes clotting or agglutination. Well, this protein, wheat germ agglutinin, passes through the entire gastrointestinal tract intact. It’s not touched at all. But in its passage from mouth to toilet, it’s highly inflammatory. It’s very, very toxic to the gastrointestinal lining. It also blocks pancreatic release of enzymes. And it blocks, releases bile acids from the gallbladder, so it disrupts digestion. And that has all kinds of consequences.

The gliadin protein of wheat is only partially digested. As you know, if I eat a pork chop, or a steak, or an egg, you break the proteins down into single amino acids. When you consume the gliadin protein in wheat, it’s broken down into four or five amino acid long peptides. But those peptides are very unique. They cross into the brain and they bind to the opiate receptors, and they stimulate appetite. So people who consume grains are stimulated to eat all the time. These are the people who have a big bowl of pasta or spaghetti, have a bursting full stomach, and they say they’re still hungry. Very unnatural. That’s the gliadin protein.

Dr. Hotze: I want to underscore what Dr. Davis said. The gliadin, which is a type of protein found in wheat, really in the gluten molecule, it’s associated with the gluten. When it breaks down, it’s a protein, and proteins from animals, you break those down into single amino acids. And I think you do the same from proteins from beans as well. Is that not true?

Dr. William Davis: Exactly.

Dr. Hotze: Right. But the proteins that are in grasses, we don’t have the digestive enzymes to be able to break them down into single amino acids. Single amino acids hook together, create peptides, which are hooked to, and they create proteins. You have peptides, which are a series of amino acids hooked together that the body can’t digest because of the gliadin. They cross because this causes a leaky gut syndrome because you’ve got the wheat germ agglutinin and the other products, the gluten and all this, these proteins cause damage to the lining of the intestine, which allow these molecules to cross into the bloodstream. The body has autoimmune reaction to it. It makes antibodies towards it.

But they float in the blood, and they will blind to opiate receptors. These are the receptors that heroin and morphine and codeine and these various drugs that are mind-altering, pain killers oftentimes, that bind to the opiate receptors, like opium. That’s what we’re talking about, opiate where opium would bind. And so these molecules of gliadin bind to that. And so the brain gets very addicted to that, and it turns on the hunger aspect and the appetite. It increases the appetite, so when you eat this and try to come off of it, you’re immediately hungry. And then you’re hungry, and you’ve got to have something to eat. What do you need? You need another donut, or another roll, or another cookie. And that’s what you’re eating all day long, which is increasing your blood sugar level. And that is another problem.

We’ll come to that in just a minute about glycation, and that’s very important. But we want to talk about the gluten and amylopectin and the phytates and what those do. And these are some other products that are within wheat that you need to know about that are very dangerous to your health. Remember grass, we were not made to digest grass products. We can’t do it. And they cause a host of health problems in our gut. Why don’t you talk to us about the gluten, doc?

Beware of Gluten-Free

Dr. William Davis: Sure. Gluten’s a bit of a dangerous word because people sometimes hear gluten, they think that gluten-free must therefore be good. As we know, the food industry has done a lot of harm to the American health and weight because they will take advantage of any kind of misconception that they can find. One of the things they’ve jumped onto, to the tune of made billions of dollars every year, is this movement to remove, as they say, gluten. So when people remove gluten, whether they do it for personal reasons, or celiac disease, or gluten intolerance, or whatever, they’ll see that they can buy gluten free pizza crust and pies and cookies and muffins and baking mixes. Well, those mixes are made with, or those products are made with cornstarch, rice flour, tapioca starch and potato flour, which are horrible in raising blood sugar. Very few foods raise blood sugar higher than wheat products. They have among the highest glycemic indexes of all. There’s only a handful of foods that have an even higher glycemic index than wheat.

Dr. Hotze: Corn.

Dr. William Davis: Cornstarch, rice flour, tapioca starch and potato flour. It’s like a cruel joke. But when you peel back the curtains, you also realize that those gluten free products are also coming from the grain industry in a large part. So a lot of this has to do with the shenanigans of big food, but particularly the grain industry, to protect their franchise.

Dr. Hotze: Right. And so folks, the bottom line on this is you’re not okay if you eat gluten-free products because gluten-free products contain, are made from corn starch, potato starch, rice starch, tapioca starch, which have a high glycemic index, which means that within an hour of putting them in your body, it dramatically raises your blood sugar. In fact, I think corn raises your blood sugar higher, and so does wheat, higher than a tablespoon of sugar. It causes your body to create sugar. And remember what sugar does. Sugar is highly inflammatory. It increases your insulin production from your pancreas. Insulin in and of itself can be pro-inflammatory, as well as the sugar. And when you have high levels of sugar and you have high levels of insulin, you get insulin resistance. And so the body has all this sugar floating around. It doesn’t like it. It’s got to deposit it. It deposits into fat. And then the elevated sugar in your blood also binds to proteins. Why don’t you talk about the…this is called glycation. It’s the binding of sugar molecule to proteins in your body, so talk about that, doctor.

Dr. William Davis: Sure. The amylopectin A, the unique carbohydrate of wheat and related grains, dieticians and nutritionists tell us that the complex carbohydrates of grains are better for you than simple sugars. Well, that’s not true, as you know. Amylopectin A is very digestible because we have amylase enzyme in the stomach and the mouth. It’s the exception to the rule that grasses are indigestible. The amylopectin A is highly digestible, and that’s why it raises blood sugar higher ounce for ounce more than table sugar. As you point out, whenever you have a high blood sugar above really 100 milligrams, you start to glycate proteins, meaning you glucose modify proteins. And that’s an irreversible process. And because it’s essentially just garbage, because it’s gunk, that accumulates, could be in the lenses of your eyes. That leads to the opacities. That is cataracts.

It could be the LDL particles in your bloodstream, the small LDL particles, making small LDL particles much worse because they’re now glycated and oxidized. And they’re perfect for causing heart disease. Glycate skin, and you get age spots and wrinkles and thinning skin. It can glycate the cartilage proteins in cells in your knees and hips, and it causes brittle cartilage that breaks down and leads to arthritis. In other words, all the phenomena of aging are accelerated by consumption of grains and gluten free products because of the high blood glucose that results. The easy remedy, of course, is just don’t eat those things.

Dr. Hotze: Well, that’s exactly right. And we want to mention too, also, the allergic effect, or the allergy effect that grain products can have with the alpha amylase inhibitors. Why don’t you mention that and how that affects allergies?

Wheat Can Cause Allergies

Dr. William Davis: Yeah. There’s probably several dozen proteins in wheat and grains that cause allergy. Allergy could express itself as asthma, as chronic sinusitis, as stomach aches, as acid reflux, skin rashes, can show up in all different kinds of ways. And it’s gotten worse because agribusiness has modified so many proteins. So I should point out that modern wheat is not what you think it is. It’s an 18 inch tall, short, stocky plant with a very large seed head, very large seeds. They did this so it would resist being blown over in the wind. They did it for agricultural reasons, not for health reasons. But they altered so many of the proteins. And by the way, one of the big changes is they changed the structure of the gliadin protein such that those small peptides that result from partial digestion are more powerful opioids now. And they stimulate appetite even more. And I believe that’s why in the late 1980s, the food industry caught onto this in observing people’s eating behavior and started to put wheat flour in some form in virtually all processed foods, because they recognized it was a very potent appetite stimulant.

A lot of the changes introduced into the plant by agribusiness have added to the allergy effect. And then there’s the other effect that you pointed out earlier before we came on the air. That is wheat and grains and sugars cultivate fungal growth as well as other changes in the microbiome. But when you have fungal growth, intestinal fungal growth, especially when it ascends up from the colon into the ileum jejunum duodenum stomach, it starts to introduce a whole new set of allergic phenomenon. So it’s a double whammy.

Dr. Hotze: Right. And that is caused commonly by the use of antibiotics. Whenever you take antibiotics for an infection, say you have a sinus infection, you have bronchitis, you have strep throat. The doctor just says, “We’re just going to cover you with a few antibiotics to make sure we take care of you.” And they throw the antibiotics at you like it’s candy. Well, those antibiotics are meant to kill abnormal, unhealthy bacteria. But unfortunately, our body is full of good, healthy bacteria, and it adversely affects the…we call it the microbiome, the microbiology in the gut, in the intestine primarily, the large intestine, really it should be the only part of the intestine that has bacteria.

Dr. Hotze: And we have good, healthy bacteria there, lactobacillus, bifidum, and scores of others. There’s also some use there. But when you kill the good, healthy bacteria, then you get a yeast overgrowth. So commonly, because we’ve done a host of allergy in our office, we’ve seen people that have had recurring and chronic sinus infections. The women will commonly come in and complain not only do they have allergy, but they have recurrent vaginal yeast infections. Well, that came from the use of the antibiotics. As a matter of fact, I remember when I was doing family medicine back in the ’80s, when I would tell a woman I was going to give her antibiotics, she’d say, “Well, you’ve got to give me some Monistat at the same time. I’ve got to take it.” You’ve heard that, too.

Dr. William Davis: Yes.

Dr. Hotze: That was because it caused, it killed the normal, good, healthy bacteria in the vagina, and yeast would overgrow, so they’d get yeast problems. There’s another problem. There’s another molecule in wheat called phytates. Explain what that does to the minerals that we need to digest, like iron and selenium and magnesium, et cetera.

Dr. William Davis: It’s amazing, isn’t it, that we’ve been told as a nation that we should include grains, wheat and grains, in every meal, every snack because they have B vitamins and other nutrients. And as you know, that opposite is true. Yeah, there’s B vitamins and nutrients in there, but grains actually cause substantial nutritional deficiencies because of those phytates. As you point out, they bind minerals in your gut, and you pass them out in the toilet. So it binds calcium, magnesium, zinc, iron, and others. But I’ve seen, as I’m sure you have seen, lots of people, mostly women, oddly, who have iron deficiency – anemia. They have hemoglobins of seven or eight. They’re cold and tired all the time. And you give them iron supplements. They don’t respond. You give them iron injections. They still don’t respond. They get periodic transfusions. It ruins their life. They get bone marrow biopsies. And within two weeks of stopping all grains, their hemoglobins are 14. They’re back to normal.

That’s how profound these phytates can be. Magnesium deficiency, of course, is rampant because we also filter our water and remove all magnesium. And so you get the magnesium binding of phytates in the gut, passing it out into the toilet. And then you also have water that is devoid of magnesium, so it causes profound magnesium deficiency that leads to hypertension, heart rhythm disorders, heart disease, worse blood sugars, insulin resistance, et cetera. There’s a whole range of nutritional deficiencies that develop. The World Health Organization has known this for decades because they know that if there’s a problem, say in Ethiopia, or someplace like that, and they’ll fly in wheat flour, or wheat seeds, as well as corn and soy, and they know that you have to take care of all the kids who have profound nutritional deficiencies and stop growing and have impaired learning from eating those foods. The World Health Organization has known this for decades.

Dr. Hotze: Right. Well, this gives you, I hope, enough information that you will eliminate from your eating program, wheat, wheat products, and products that contain gliadin. That would be barley and rye and pumpernickel, all the delicious breads. Just eliminate them. You’ve just got to get rid of them. Also, you want to eliminate corn. You want to eliminate potato and rice products. They contain amylopectin B, which quickly converts to sugar, raises your sugar level, causes that glycation of proteins, which leads to everything from coronary artery disease to degenerative arthritis, to Alzheimer’s and dementia. All these are huge problems, and they’re preventable. But you know what, we need to listen to the father of medicine. Hippocrates said, “Let food be your medicine and medicine be your food.”

Now I’ve been practicing since 1976, and I am more convinced today than ever how important the foundational aspect is of a healthy, optimal eating program. We don’t recommend anybody go on a diet. I don’t recommend anybody ever doing a diet. Diets are something you stop and start. An optimal, healthy eating program is the way you live your life. Like one of the famous authors, I’m blanking on his name. I think it’s Fuhrman, said, “Learn how to eat to leave, rather than live to eat.” And once you do that, it will change your life. It will improve your health dramatically so that you can have a life-changing health experience just by eliminating wheat and wheat products. Doesn’t that sound crazy? But it’s so simple. Why doesn’t every doctor tell us what Dr. Davis says and write about this? Every doctor ought to read your book. Every one of the cardiologists ought to read your book. There’s another cardiologist that I highly admire, who I put on the same standard you, and I’m sure you know Dr. Steven Sinatra. You know Dr. Sinatra?

Dr. William Davis: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Dr. Hotze: Yeah. And so he’s another cardiologist who has completely switched his practice over time to adopt natural approaches to health, abandoned cholesterol drugs and this whole idea that cholesterol is a cause of heart disease, and it’s not. We’re talking about board certified cardiologists that used to do conventional medicine that did all the standard procedures and basic procedures where they made a bunch of money on that. They also gave all the medication, all the heart medication. But they found that through changing a person’s eating program, eating lifestyle, if they would make a change to optimal healthy eating we’ve talked about, which is elimination of your wheat products and any other grain products, barley and rye and pumpernickel, elimination of corn, potatoes and rice, that had a dramatic improvement in a person’s health.

Now you say, “What do you eat?” Well, let’s talk about what we eat, doc. People go, “Gosh, if I can’t eat that, what am I going to eat?” Well, let me mention something to you, folks. If you eliminate this, these products, when you eliminate wheat and these other products because they have gliadin, and gliadin attaches to the opiate receptors in your brain, when you stop them, you can feel really bad. You get headaches. You get nauseous. You get aches and pains. You get cravings. It’s like coming off dope. We used to call it Herxheimer reaction, is what we called it. We said, “Well, this is due to yeast die off.” But it’s really not. I don’t think. I think it may be a combination. But a lot of it is the withdrawal you’re having from the opiate like substance, gliadin, that’s in the wheat. And that can cause a host of problems.

And some people, when you go ketogenic, they call it a ketogenic flu. You’ve heard that term, probably. But I think all of this is the withdrawal of wheat and other grain products from the diet, and the fact that they cause withdrawal from the opiate like effect they have on the brain. Does that make sense?

Dr. William Davis: Absolutely. Yeah. I see this day in, day out. It’s an opiate withdrawal syndrome, headache, nausea, depression, suicidal thoughts. It can be pretty rough for about five, six, seven days.

Dr. Hotze: Right. So be ready to go through that, folks. But once you get through it, you start feeling so good. And then what we recommend is an eating program that’s higher in good healthy oils and fats, eggs, butter, avocados, nuts, fish oil, coconut oil, olive oil, healthy hard cheeses. That’s good. Putting a lot of that in your diet. I like to explain it like this. Those are fats. And fats convert to ketones in your body and in your power plants within your cells. And everybody has power plants in their cells to create energy. They’re called mitochondria. Think back to your biology in high school. Those mitochondria are producing electrical energy from the nutrients you eat, from your hormones, from your vitamins and minerals. But they need a fuel, and the fuel’s either going to be sugar, glucose, or it’s going to be ketones, which come from fat.

If you use sugar, it’s like taking your fireplace and using your daily newspaper to start the fire and keep it going. It burns up quickly and you keep having to throw paper on. The wife says, “Honey, why don’t you quit throwing paper on the fire? Why don’t you just put a log on the fire? It burns slowly.” Well, the log’s like fat. It’s like the ketones. It burns slowly and it satisfies. So when you eat an eating program that’s higher in natural oils and fats, I recommend cod liver oil. I take two tablespoons of cod liver oil every day because it’s high in DHA and EPA, and those are essential omega 3 fatty acids that are so important for brain function. You ought to be giving that to your kids. Teaspoon a day, moms. Give your kids a teaspoon of cod liver oil or some natural fish oil every day. That will help their brains develop well. Also, give them vitamin D3. That’s very important for brain health in kids, as well as immune system health.

This is the way that you have to eat. This is the way you’ve got to change. You have a mindset in your brain so you can do a 180 and take charge of your health. If you do that, then all the diseases that Dr. Davis has listed that come from eating wheat, and that’s the obesity, that’s the prediabetic and diabetic syndrome, high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney disorder, degenerative arthritis, irritable bowel syndromes, gastroesophageal reflux, dementia, Alzheimer’s, cancer, all these can be eliminated or dramatically decreased in incidence. Doctor, your work has been tremendous on this. And we are so proud of you and grateful to you, and congratulate you on your marvelous success, and for having the courage of your convictions to write these books because I know it comes, I know it’s got to come at a cost with people within the medical profession.

Dr. William Davis: Well, thank you for recognizing that because I’m sure you’re in the same boat. I would point out, because people, once they hear this nutritional message, they get scared. They say, “What do you mean? No more pizza? What about birthday cakes for my kids? What about holidays? Can I still make stuffing and biscuits and gravy?” One of the things I do is I show people how to recreate those foods. And you can recreate almost anything with benign healthy ingredients like almond flour, coconut flour, round golden flaxseed and others. And you can have delicious pizza, delicious, wonderful cheesecake. You can have stuffing and biscuits and gravy at Thanksgiving and other holidays. So that’s also in the Wheat Belly and Undoctored conversations.

Dr. Hotze: Right. That’s a key point. You can use…let me mention something. I’m going to give a plug for Stevia. That’s a natural sweetener from the Stevia leaf. We can use that. And when we have parties, we have guests over, we have our catering service make Stevia cheesecake. Cheese is, as you probably know, it’s very ketogenic. So we use Stevia cheesecake. And they put an almond crust on the bottom of it, and it’s just delicious. In fact, I’m told there’s ice cream out there that’s made with Stevia. I’d like to try it, but I don’t know…we don’t have it at any of the stores here. Somebody in Wisconsin, though, I read, I don’t know if you know about it, but there are two ladies in Wisconsin that have Stevia ice cream. I don’t know if you’ve heard about it or tried it. I haven’t had ice cream in so long, and I love ice cream. But it’s got corn syrup in it folks, and that’s not good for you – raises your sugar level. Well, listen. Dr. Dr. Davis, thank you so very much.

Dr. William Davis: Thank you for having me.

Dr. Hotze: Thank you for the leadership you’ve provided for those of us physicians and practitioners in the medical profession that you provided this great leadership and giving this wonderful asset, this book, Wheat Belly, which I want to encourage each one of our listeners to go out and buy this book. Tell us how we can go to your website, doctor.

Dr. William Davis: The books are on Amazon. They’re at all major bookstores. There’s also ongoing conversation and expansion of the conversation on my Wheat Belly Blog, the Wheat Belly Facebook Page. There’s a Wheat Belly 10-Day Grain Detox private Facebook page that you can join. There’s also Undoctored Facebook, Undoctored Blog.

Dr. Hotze: Great. Be sure to go to that and follow Dr. Davis. Again, Dr. Davis, thank you for joining us today. We appreciate you.

Dr. William Davis: My pleasure.

Stacey Bandfield: Really fantastic information. If you would like more information on how to do a 180, take charge of your health, then you can give us a call at 281-698-8698 for a complimentary consultation. That’s 281-698-8698. Thank you for joining us today at Dr. Hotze’s Wellness Revolution.

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